K24 / Accord upgrades

[dinoc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dinoc]

Was it made back to back, on the same day?
But anyway, the movies speak for them self (see those stock vs reflash).

[Dan101 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dan101]

Mr. Doc . You r asking same questions ive already responded. But flaked off mines.

1. Are you a real tuner \ builder and understand what you r dong and how it works or just reselling other brands \ firmwares \ kits ? If you arent a real guy then i cant discuss anything with you and answer your tech questions because you have no experience behind your questions or doubts and you have nothing to stand on.

2. You are talking bout these mods and those mods. Stop doing this. Heres clean video with stock AT cl9 vs stock AT CL9 + reflash. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laVcoW-ck4Y I repeat, both cars are bone stock, no any mods. They have 4 cars difference till 150 kph and about 6 cars till 200kph. With just a reflash, not a 3k EUR investement.

3. Heres vid especially for you , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N-Gkiz1vOA absolutely bone stock type-s vs executive that have stock engine, my custom headers + high flow cat, my reflash, full tank of gas + 2 passangers, modyfied intake with resonator removed. Final speed of this run about 210 kph. You say 3-5 cars , eh ?? Nah bro , its a taillights on the horizon, its 15 cars or maybe more.

3. Dont compare apples to oranges. Read carefully - im talking ONLY about CL9 K24 engine. Dont show us FN2 VS buckets full of bolts, its absolutely senseless in this discussion. I wasnt able to make a "just FW" for CTR with such significant gains as CL9 because CTR K20 engine has MUCH LESS hided potential than K24 and Honda tuned them really well ( F20 also ) and squeezed almost all juices out of it on the factory. To make it move in NA variant you need to invest more than 3k. Period. I guess it was a Honda joke to put such an engine in a civil car LOL.

4. Id like to expain my experience that most of all italian reflashes for honda ( i havent tested others ) are spoof because they dont have ! and dont know ! Honda engines. Period. All they can do is to change rev limit and advance ignition a lil but its not opel or daewoo, its not working in real life on the road. These guys are good in learning ECUs, processors , read\write protocols but they arent tuners for everyhting. Its absolutely not possible to cover ALL manufacturers and ALL engines, its not possible to open FW in editor , change few digits in map with pushing finger in the sky hoping it will work. It will not. Its possible to steal, buy, collect good reflashes from different teams in 1 place but its impossible to know all, only narrow long term specialization can do magic. If you r tuning VAG - tune the VAGs , like the subies - do em, if you are tuning Mazda - stay with it ! My only and last love is Honda. Tuner MUST understand the engine, how it works , its flaws , its good sides , its technology and how it differs from other engines, he must assemble it with closed eyes, only after that he will understand its datalogues and is able to make a good firmware math model. Honda K engines ARE UNIQUE and the most powerful NA I4 in the world, I-VTEC tech is very powerful invention but its insane hard to uderstand it. Without tuning it you cant find a power on their powerplants. There was a reflash for CU2 from one italian company, we tested it here, they set rev limit to 8k and raised ignition. What happened there ? As soon as knock sensor hear the noise ( bad gas , heat , etc ) - all that ignition is retarded by ECU. So you have 10-15 hp bump with first few runs and then ecu relearns and no power bump )) Stock engine power falls RAPIDLY after 7600 rpms, its a nonsence to rev and stress it if its not making power anymore. So they wanted to kill their customers engines ??? Ive offered my buddy that works on service to work with me and flash Acuras, he wasnt happy to hear that and told me they repaired few RDX reflashed by some italian dealers soon had a problems - oil in the intake and turbo rebuild. I havent seen such troubles with Hondata reflashes. Thats an example of the wrong tune.

5. You havent responded to my bet offer and still trying to keep posting doubts based on facts that has nothing common with discussion. Whats wrong man ? Are you in this reality ? Be a real guy and bet with me. Stop flaking. If you dont believe your eyes and wanna touch our cars just collect 10k and we are there in few days. I will even make you a discount for another 10k and also bring my own car, its making 0-200 in about 20-21 secs, like an EVO. On AT !!! tranny, pure NA honda power ))) Good luck earning easy money LOL !

6. Im very sceptic about NA reflashes for different grasschoppers with 1.3-3.0L like fiat, kia , daewoo, chevrolet, renault etc and think at least 70% of em are rip offs because i know the ONLY ENGINE IN THE WORLD that can show such a significant ( amazing ) gains with JUST a tune - its k24a2 for usdm , k24a3 for edm and audm and k24a off rhd JDM cl9. JDM engie is the most powerful among em and shows 3-5 hp more , as usual ))

, A+++ !

[littlebo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close littlebo]

Understood. The deltas I was interested to compare. I have the graph for stock vs SKN reflash and I was curious to see your reflash vs stock and compare the gains across the RPM range.

Low and mid end bump for cu2 in 2-4.8 about 7-12 hp , in the mid between vtec start and redline where the small lobe is falling rapidly in stock cal my curve is climbing and biggest diff is about 38hp there , top end diff at the redline is about 15hp and at 7800 power curve starts to flatten and fall , stock block isnt capable to make power past 7700 rpms.

I wanna ask you about your butt dyno. What do you feel after you reflashed ?

Any improvements ? Describe em like you feel it.

Have you raced with stock car b4 and after reflash ? Whats the difference ? I trust only road result, any dyno operator can tweak dyno result a lil, some of em been caught on doing this ))

Have you noticed any pinging noise ( detonation ) after reflash ?

[rezare Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rezare]

Most generic reflashes work on the DBW response and feel faster, but the improvements are not always there. I too have a reflash and I expected more out of it. From what I see, the car is running very rich at the moment, I doubt it is optimal.

[cata_mahu Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close cata_mahu]

Thanks for the info. I didn't race the car, it was only done for my personal satisfaction and to improve the "slow" response of the stock car. My but dyno says that the car performs a lil better in the mid range RPM. But it's all relative... Anyway, if your reflash gives the gains you spoke about it's significantly better that the Italian one. I saw max 15 CP gains on the curve and that somewhere at 6000 RPM. On the top nothing noticeable, maybe 2-3 CP. Pinging noise I maybe heard when I was forced to use doubtful quality gas somewhere in Greece. In Romania I am only using 98 and 95 from Petrom.

[littlebo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close littlebo]

Most generic reflashes work on the DBW response and feel faster, but the improvements are not always there. I too have a reflash and I expected more out of it. From what I see, the car is running very rich at the moment, I doubt it is optimal.

Rich in open loop ? At what rpms ? Optimal afr for it is about 12.8-13 at WOT

[littlebo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close littlebo]

Please find someone with stock car and compare at least 1-2 gears on the road, im curious if there will be any difference. precise VTC tune and cams design allows CU2 to perform noticeably better right from 2k rpms.

[rezare Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rezare]

I did do an ad-hoc run with a stock CU2 and was faster on a rolling start from 80 to about 170. But nothing groundbreaking and I do have some other mods on my car, so I'm not sure it's them or the reflash. Combined, the difference should have been larger.

I'm not sure at what rpms I am rich, I think it's all around, either open or closed loop I hear exhaust rumblings when doing engine breaking in 1st/2nd gear and my exhaust tips are pretty black.

[littlebo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close littlebo]

I'm not sure at what rpms I am rich, I think it's all around, either open or closed loop I hear exhaust rumblings when doing engine breaking in 1st/2nd gear and my exhaust tips are pretty black.

If you have no cat the tips will be black anyway. And you need to scan your afr to make a correct conclusion if its reach or not. I rarely but also have those rumblings under hard engine braking with immediate pedal release.

[littlebo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close littlebo]

Thanks for feedback , id like to add that you tested it with Dinu in da car and he isnt a slender guy ) So after he went out it must pull even better LOL ! Heres few pics of mentioned headers , ive made few for initial testing, 2 guys are trying to beat a shit out of em and if they will not fall apart in a few weeks then i can show em to community. Final version will have stock flange so youll be able to install stock cat for smog inspection ( if you have some in RO )

Dont judge too strictly , it was my first welding expirience.

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[Dan101 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dan101]

Ecu sent to Dinoc , i want those headers too, it will be perfect if they can fit to the stock cat (not like de WR ) , i have FLP too...also, can you make some 4-1 headers ? like the ASP ?? thanks!

[littlebo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close littlebo]

Id like to but 4-1 merge collector is a tricky thing to weld, ive checked and tried few times and can say that my knowledge and exp isnt enough to make it right now but im working on it ! ASP header is a masterpiece ineed despite it looks very simple outside. Hat off for Stefan whos making great headers ! BTW , 4-2-1 headers works great ! 4-1 is top end header , its not for all ppl , 4-2-1 help to build low and middle which we need in a daily drive.

[ionutblv Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ionutblv]

Te asteptam cu impresii si la 10 ani sau 18

[littlebo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close littlebo]

In ziua cand voi implinii 33 de ani, type s -ul meu va face 6 ani, 6 ani de dragoste, cine zicea ca iubirea nu dureaza decat 2 ani ? 6 ani in care eu nu m-am saturat sa merg cu ea, 6 ani in care ma uit tot cu admiratia la ea, 6 ani de implinire si uimire totodata !

6 years your beauty has been sleeping and waiting for this kiss )) Now she woke up and will show you her love in full ! So prepare for a bunch of new feelings and impressions.
Be careful dude, brake\power balance wasnt so good in a stock car ! And now , with all that burning power added which provoking you for ROCKing and VTECing each gear it gets even worse. Pay attention to this and help your brakes with engine braking to avoid overheating. Good luck on the road.

CL9 is a last old school Honda inspired and made by Soichiro. 6 years is nothing for it, my own one also has 6 and it still like a new car ! And i see no car to replace it. Some has power , some has comfort, but none of em can give you the feeling and joy that only Honda can give.

[mhh39 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mhh39]

Change the brakes. The cheapest way to do it is to buy EBC Yellow pads and discs. Plus steel brake lines and brake fluid, of course. You will definitely feel more brake power and the car will stop faster than before. The stock brakes are awful. I talked about this with Dinu, right after driving his car. My setup is quite modest (Yellow, steel brake lines, Ate Blue, stock rotors), but it does make a significant difference in braking from the stock setup (Dinu, for example). It's a pity (and dangerous as well) to have such power under the hood and have no braking power. The full EBC setup shoud cost ~500EUR (yellow pads, carbon/blue rotors, steel lines).

Once you have more money, you can replace the entire setup with 4/6 pot brake calipers. Check SRZ (Mihai Spanachi) for quotes (~1100EUR/front setup and about the same for the rear setup). If I remember correctly, he sells Fastbrakes/Stoptech/etc. You may want to consider the brake pump as well.

There is also another option. You can replace only the front calipers with the ones sold by Spoon (4 pot, 300mm disc, bolt-on). You can buy them from Greece (PM me) and the kit costs 1380EUR. The kit contains the calipers, bolts and brackets (no pads, no steel lines, no rotors - you can use the stock ones). Otherwise, you can find some good ATR 4-pot calipers or TL calipers from the US (Brembo made) and replace the stock CL ones. I'm not sure it is a bolt on swap.


If somebody has any clue or information on the k20->k24 swap for the CL7, please drop me a message. Or other mods as well, including a good CL9 MT/TypeS (with clean history and well taken care of). I would like to learn more about the swap and, eventually, do it someday. So far, I found no information about it and nobody seems to know anything about it (apart from saying it's easy to do). Thanks.