Honda revine in F1!!!

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  • Honda pe 5 in calificarile din Abu Dhabi McLaren Renault pleaca de pe 13 si 14. Ramane de vazut daca motorul Honda o sa si reziste pana la finalul cursei. Oricum pentru ei ar trebui sa fie important sa faca un motor rapid, dupa care sa il faca si fiabil.

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    • Pierre Gasly: Satisfying to out-qualify McLaren with Honda power

      Pierre Gasly says Toro Rosso can take satisfaction from beating McLaren with Honda power during qualifying for the Bahrain Grand Prix.


      Pierre Gasly admits Toro Rosso and Honda found it satisfying to out-perform McLaren in qualifying for the Bahrain Grand Prix.

      Toro Rosso took on Honda power units for this season after McLaren’s switch to Renault in the wake of a disastrous three-year spell with the Japanese engine manufacturer.

      While Fernando Alonso claimed fifth in Melbourne’s season-opener as Toro Rosso endured a tough start to life with Honda following a promising pre-season, the Faenza-based squad turned the tables on McLaren in qualifying in Bahrain.

      Gasly made it into Q3 and set the sixth-fastest time, nearly a full second clear of the McLaren duo led by Alonso in 13th, with teammate Brendon Hartley narrowly missing out on a spot in the top 10 shootout by less than 0.1s.

      When asked if he found it satisfying to out-perform both McLaren drivers in qualifying, Gasly replied: “I didn’t say it on the radio, but yeah, for sure.

      “It was the best lap I have done in Formula 1. I had one chance in Q3 with my new tyres. I knew that I had to do the lap, and if I would do like a really good lap, it could put us in a really good position.

      “For sure I didn’t expect to be P6. But when I crossed the lap, I was like ‘OK, I have done and I have given everything I had’.

      “It was just a great feeling when they told me I was P6. I think also on my side, I’m getting more and more comfortable on the car, session after session.”

      Toro Rosso has been bolstered by the introduction of a new aerodynamic package in Bahrain, though Gasly credited his team’s impressive turnaround in performance as being mostly down to a direction change in set-up.

      “It’s mainly on the setup, we have changed quite a lot our philosophy. Melbourne is really special, it's so bumpy and you need to change the setup quite massively for that track.

      “Here we came back a bit more closer to what we had in Barcelona, and found some good and interesting directions on the setup. I've just felt super-comfortable with the car since FP1 and managed to show some good potential in the beginning.

      “We managed to improve the car session after session. I’m especially happy for the team, because they are working really hard. Also for Honda, it’s good to show them that all the hard work is starting to pay off, and that they need to keep pushing and keep giving us some upgrades.”

      Gasly will start Sunday's race from fifth on the grid, after Lewis Hamilton is demoted five positions for taking on a new gearbox in his Mercedes.

      1. Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 1:29.060 1:28.341 1:27.958 13
      2 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1:28.921 1:28.515 1:28.101 13
      3 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1:29.275 1:28.794 1:28.124 16
      4 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:29.396 1:28.458 1:28.220 16
      5 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull 1:29.552 1:28.962 1:28.398 12
      6 Pierre Gasly Toro Rosso 1:30.121 1:29.836 1:29.329 18
      7 Kevin Magnussen Haas F1 1:29.594 1:29.623 1:29.358 16
      8 Nico Hulkenberg Renault 1:30.260 1:29.187 1:29.570 15
      9 Esteban Ocon Force India 1:30.338 1:30.009 1:29.874 16
      10 Carlos Sainz Renault 1:29.893 1:29.802 1:29.986 18
      11 Brendon Hartley Toro Rosso 1:30.412 1:30.105 15
      12 Sergio Perez Force India 1:30.218 1:30.156 11
      13 Fernando Alonso McLaren 1:30.530 1:30.212 12
      14 Stoffel Vandoorne McLaren 1:30.479 1:30.525 12
      15 Max Verstappen Red Bull 1:29.374 No Time 4
      16 Romain Grosjean Haas F1 1:30.530 7
      17 Marcus Ericsson Sauber 1:31.063 9
      18 Sergey Sirotkin Williams 1:31.414 8
      19 Charles Leclerc Sauber 1:31.420 8
      20 Lance Stroll Williams F1 1:31.530 8


      Este pentru prima data de la revenirea constructorului Honda in F1 cand putem vorbi despre rezultate si performanta. Am urmarit toate cele 3 sesiuni de antrenamente libere si calificarile si pot spune ca performanta de astazi a celor doi piloti Toro Rosso-Honda nu este pur intamplatoare. Sigur ca, in conditii normale ar fi tot pe la coada clasamentului care aduce puncte, intrucat Hamilton si Verstapen vor pleca de pe pozitiile 9 respectiv 15, insa chiar si asa monopostul Toro Rosso-Honda este la acelasi nivel cu Renault/Haas/Force India, sau prin preajma. Daca startul va fi unul curat in cursa de maine, iar Honda nu ne face vreo surpriza cu motoarele, atunci punctele sunt posibil de atins.

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      • Il Cavallo Rampante are dubla, sper din toată inima ca la final să rămână așa!
        Asta e pofta mea

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        • Vettel, cursă extraordinară, azi parcă a avut ceva din marele Schumi ♡
          Gasly pe 4 si cel mai important, în fața celor două Mclaren #priceless si ca să îl citez "now, we fight!"
          Pare-se că F1 dă semne că vrea să își recapete farmecul si acum ca nu ne aude nimeni, niciodată nu i-am suportat pe ingânfații aia de la Mclaren acum or sa dea vina pe cei de la Renò.
          Ps: sper ca mecanicul Ferrari sa nu fi pățit nimic foarte grav, mi-a stat inima.
          richie
          Senior Member
          Last edited by richie; 08-04-18, 20:54.

          Comment


          • Priceless, priceless, priceless P4! M-am bucurat ca un copil mic ca au taiat toate monopostuirle Renault. Nu, n-am uitat ca cei 3 abandonati, in conditii normale, ar fi terminat in fata lui Gasly. Dar daca Gasly ar fi luat deci P7, Mclaren ar fi iesit din puncte, deci.........

            @BV26CAT: fiabilitatea trebuie sa fie peste viteza.
            HONDA. The finest from Japan. Since 1963.

            Comment


            • Gasly a fost surprinzator de bun. Si Hartley a fost bun, era cat pe ce sa intre in puncte. Daca n-ar fi luat penalizarea aia, ar fi fost sigur in puncte, undeva pe locul 8-9. Nu ma asteptam ca Torro Rosso sa reuseasca o asemenea performanta. Sper sa o tina tot asa si de acum inainte.
              "Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise."
              "The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head." - Sir Terry Pratchett

              Comment


              • Asadar, Honda mai spala din rusine cu un bine-meritat loc 4, in MP al Bahrain-ului, cel mai bun rezultat de la revenirea constructorului in Marele Circ. Insa, sunt cateva aspecte de precizat si anume.

                1. Dupa abandonul inregistrat in MP al Australiei la monopostul lui Gasly, s-a descoperit o problema (din nou) la componenta MGU-H (turbo-compresor). In cele doua saptamani de pauza, pana la inceperea weekend-ului trecut, Honda a facut niste modificari la aceste componente, pe care le-a montat atat pe monopostul lui Gasly, cat si pe monopostul lui Hartley. Din pacate Gasly a pierdut si motorul termic dupa abandonul din Australia, defectiunea de la turbo-compresor afectand si motorul termic. Asadar, Gasly mai are la dispozitie doar 2 din 3 motoare disponibile, cu care trebuie sa parcurga tot sezonul 2018. Din acest motiv, probabil ca penalizarile vor surveni cel mai probabil pe la jumatatea sezonului 2018, asta daca motoarele vor da dovada de o fiabilitate buna de aici inainte. Pe de alta parte, faptul ca Honda a adus modificari la MGU-H in doar doua saptamani (timp insuficiente pentru teste pe banc), ma face sa cred ca japonezii se asteptau la aceste probleme, cu toate ca in Barcelona motoarele au mers aproape fara probleme majore in testele de iarna. Curios...

                2. Analizand performanta motoarelor, abia acum, dupa schimbarea echipei (monopostului McLaren cu Toro Rosso) putem sa ne facem o parere de ansamblu mai aproape de adevar si sa intelegem cateva aspecte imposibil de descifrat pana anul trecut. Concret, pe langa diversele probleme tehnice suferite sezonul trecut de pilotii McLaren, ceea ce iesea in evidenta cel mai des era lipsa de putere a grupului moto-propulsor Honda. In mai toate clasamentele cu top speed-urile inregistrate in sezonul trecut si nu numai, Honda era in coada. Cred ca ne aducem aminte cu totii remarca lui Alonso chiar in Marele Premiu Al Japoniei, botezandu-si motorul Honda ca unul din campionatul GP2. Ei bine, lucrurile erau partial adevarate, in sensul ca nu doar unitatea de putere Honda era usor anemica, ci mai ales monopostul McLaren isi arata limitele.

                Pe scurt, pentru a nu divaga de la subiect prea mult, un monopost este eficient aerodinamic daca indeplineste criteriile regulii de aur: un maxim de apasare aerodinamica pentru un minim de rezistenta la inaintare. Cu alte cuvinte, cel mai eficient, si deci rapid monopost va fi acela care va genera cea mai mare apasare la sol in viraje, dar care nu va penaliza top speed-ul pe liniile drepte. In testele din presezon din Barcelona, cand mi-am aruncat un ochi pe clasamentul vitezelor, Honda era in top 5, dupa Mercedes/Ferrari/Haas si altii. Initial am zis ca se pilotii Toro Rosso incearca diverse setari, alegand in mod deliberat o apasare aerodinamica mai mica, favorizand top speed-ul. In prima cursa din Australia, situatia s-a repetat, cu toate ca monoposturile Toro Rosso erau pe la jumatatea clasamentului, insa chiar si asa, era o performanta. Insa confirmarea a venit abia weekend-ul trecut, in Bahrain, pe un circuit cu o linie dreapta destul de lunga si care pune accent pe performanta (puterea) motoarelor. In poza de mai jos, se poate observa clasamentul vitezelor de top chiar din calificari. De notat ar fi faptul ca atat Ferrari cat mai ales Mercedes pot creste performanta motoarelor exact in tururile de calificari, atunci cand si top speed-urile cresc, insa in cursa, ecarturile sunt mai mici fata de Renault/Honda.

                Asadar, daca ne uitam in prima coloana (top speed-ul la capatul liniei de start-sosire), vedem monopostul lui Gasly la doar 5 km/h fata de Ferrari-ul lui Raikkonen. Anul trecut, diferenta era chiar si de 15 km/h pe unele circuite. Insa, ce trebuie remarcat este top speed-ul inregistrat de monoposturile McLaren, 314 km/h, respectiv 310 km/h, ultimele pozitii din clasament, in conditiile in care motoarele Renault se zice ca ar fi mai performante decat cele Honda. Ei bine, aceste rezultate denota faptul ca lipsa performantei si implicit a rezultatelor din anii trecuti nu sunt imputabile 100% constructorului nipon, asa cum mai marii McLaren au tot lasat sa se inteleaga prin presa. Acum, cand ei au motoare mai puternice la dispozitie se poate trage o concluzia clara, anume ca dpdv aerodinamic, McLaren lasa muuult de dorit fata de concurenta. Ceea ce fac ei, este sa compensese ineficienta aerodinamica prin cresterea rezistentei la inaintare (drag), consecinta imediata fiind penalizarea top speed-ului. Sigur, Honda a avut problemele bine cunoscute de fiabilitate, insa chiar si asa, cred ca am fost dusi cu totii in eroare, atunci cand toata lumea arata cu degetul spre Honda. Performanta este acolo, trebuie insistat mai mult pe fiabilitate, pe anduranta.




                In incheiere, pot spune ca respir usurat cand ma gandesc prin ce a trecut Honda, fiind la un pas de a parasi Marele Circ anul trecut, daca nu cadeau la o intelegere cu Toro Rosso. Si mai mult, ieseau pe usa din dos, cu coada intre picioare si imaginea patata. Acum insa, rezultatele incep sa se vada. Sa nu ne imbatam cu apa rece, in F1 conteaza enorm si aerodinamica, motiv pentru care vor veni curse grele in continuare, curse in care monoposturile Toro Rosso nu vor prinde punctele. Ceea ce conteaza in acest moment este ca Honda sa continue pe acest drum al pasilor marunti. Am impresia, comparand cu ceea ce au facut Renault cu motoarele lor in ultimele doua sezoane, ca niponii au totusi o rata de dezvoltare ceva mai rapida. Honda a recuperat mai mult si intr-un timp mai scurt fata de francezi. Si, in conditiile in care Red Bull nu sunt deloc incantati de Renault (vezi primul abandon al sezonului prin Ricioardo, in Bahrain), iar Honda va continua sa livreze rezultate (se asteapta un upgrade de vreo 15 cai in Canada), este posibil ca austriecii sa semneze cu Honda pentru 2019. Ar fi, zic eu, o reusita din start: in primul rand monoposturile Red Bull sunt acolo, cu Ferrari/Mercedes dpdv aero, iar Honda s-ar concentra strict pe motoare. Viitorul suna bine!

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                • Si iata si confirmarea celor analizate de mine, mai sus.

                  http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi...ake__Red_Bull/

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                  • Acum au motor dar nu au piloti.
                    sigpic

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                    • Oricum nu erau pe o pozitie prea buna sa zici ca au pierdut ceva.
                      La cum merge treaba la Renault cu dezvoltarea motorului ma indoiesc ca RedBull o sa renunte la ei.

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                      • Ultimul paragraf este interesant:

                        "According to informed sources, the improvement will be about 30bhp, and on a track like Canada, it would be about three tenths per lap," said the report.

                        AS believes the boost would bring Renault up to about 950bhp, while it is known that Mercedes and Ferrari have reached the 1000bhp milestone.

                        Renault's Cyril Abiteboul recently revealed that the manufacturer's engine development plans were evolving favourably.

                        After meeting its stringent reliability targets, Renault has been gradually turning up the power to extract more performance from its engine.

                        "If we follow our plan, it will be a while until the second power unit arrives but there will be an evolution of the ICE and also the fuel," said Abiteboul.

                        AS also reported that Honda has an upgrade of its own in the works, worth a potential increase of 40 bhp, and expected to be introduced either in Canada or France.

                        "According to rumours, Red Bull have told Honda that the condition of using their power unit next season is that it is equal to the Renault," wrote AS.

                        Comment


                        • Honda & Red Bull Racing engage in ‘positive’ first meeting over engine supply



                          Azerbaijan Grand Prix – Honda & Red Bull Racing have held preliminary talks regarding a possible partnership for power unit supply from 2019.

                          Honda, who supply Red Bull’s junior team Toro Rosso with power units, appear to have made a significant step forward in terms of power and reliability this season, with Toro Rosso claiming P4 on merit in Bahrain with Pierre Gasly.

                          Red Bull appear to have been impressed with Honda’s improvement so far this year, and have held talks with the Japanese manufacturer ahead of the supply notice deadline on the 15th of May.

                          Speaking to Formula1.com, Honda motorsport boss Masahi Yamamoto confirmed that he had met with Red Bull’s Dr. Helmut Marko as they discussed a possible future together: “Because it was the very first meeting, we discussed the conditions of both sides, what do we expect of each other.”

                          “Yes, it was positive. We do believe we were both satisfied. There’s a good relationship between us. However, it’s the first time we have an official meeting. It’s the starting point for a potential future.”

                          However, if such a partnership is to happen, Red Bull must make a decision very quickly about whether to split from long term engine partner Renault, with whom the team have enjoyed tremendous success in the V8 era. However, since the change to the Hybrid regulations, the relationship has become far more rocky, with Renault providing an adequate, rather than dominant, power unit.

                          “We have the obligation to present the documents on the 15 May to the FIA,” said Yamamoto. “It’s something we are starting to discuss now and it has to be smooth between Honda and Red Bull.

                          “I want to use the time we have left to discuss with the Honda board members before I take the feedback back Red Bull to take the next steps.

                          “When we decided to come back to F1, the plan was not to just stick with one team but work with multiple teams.

                          “The board members are aware of discussions and there is a big respect for the relationship [with the Red Bull organisation].”

                          Yamamoto confirmed that the talks were regarding a deal that would run in conjunction with the Toro Rosso agreement, covering 2019 & 2020.

                          Comment


                          • Red Bull is apparently close to confirming their plans for the 2019 season by announcing Honda as their engine partners for the next season and beyond. Red Bull have had a somewhat fractured relationship with Renault since the beginning of the hybrid era.

                            According to Autobild, the deal between the two parties could be confirmed in the build-up to the Austrian Grand Prix, of course taking place at the Red Bull Ring.

                            Helmut Marko confirmed that the team had been monitoring the Honda effort after the Japanese manufacturer moved to Toro Rosso for the 2018 season after supplying McLaren for three tumultuous seasons.

                            "We're talking about three-tenths faster lap times."

                            Renault had talked about setting a deadline for Red Bull to decide but it seems as though the Milton-Keynes based outfit could have already made its decision.

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                            • https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...-deal-1046734/

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                              • Honda boss Masashi Yamamoto says that his team do not want Red Bull to drop “below its current level” following new partnership deal.

                                There could be potential pressure for Honda after a long and successful partnership between Red Bull and former engine suppliers Renault.

                                The deal was officially announced this morning following months of speculation that Red Bull were thinking about the switch.

                                Yamamoto was talking about his team’s targets during this deal.

                                “Red Bull is one of the top teams,” Yamamoto said.

                                “It has won several championships and this year too it has already won some races.

                                “It is also obvious that they have a very good chassis and this means we’ll have better chances of winning races.

                                “This gives further motivation to all members of Honda, but at the same time, it is a huge pressure and responsibility for us.

                                “However, it is Honda’s nature to always aspire to a very high target, and I think that’s what makes Honda, Honda.

                                “As a starting point, we do not want to see Red Bull Racing’s performance drop below its current level.

                                “But our target is to go further and do better than they are doing at the moment."

                                Yamamoto said that the agreement is a fair one for both parties involved.

                                “We will have to live up to their high expectations, but we can see their respect for us,” Yamamoto said.

                                “We will put everything we have into the development for next season.”

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